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pigseye
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Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm    Post subject: This is embarassing to ask Reply with quote

It would be great to have a better RsoG understanding of the classic "Sweet Child of Mine."

I know there are a bunch of lessons and tabs for this song, but i would like to leverage this song to better understand RsoG.

Another song that would be great is "Living after Midnight." Yes, I know it's an easy song, but if I can understand RsoG methods on easier songs I think it will help me gain a deeper understanding later.

Thanks!
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admin
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Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 150
Location: Southern Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:50 am    Post subject: I'm proud of you for asking! Reply with quote

Yeah, that's right! Another Guns and Roses fan! Yeah!!! I was in high school when they came out. I think we had been listening to Dep Leopard or something just before they came out and I was like "What a relief!" I heard Welcome To the Jungle and that riff where Axle is going "Ta-na-na-na-na-knees, knees" made my hair stand up:

-----------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------
------7--7--5---------------------------------------------
-------------------6-5-3--0-------------------------------

And should I have been surprised at all? It was a classic "blues" scale move. Just like some Black Sabbath riff or, later, Metallica intro to Enter Sandman.

Anyway, I don't happen to have a CD of Sweet Child around me right now, so I can't really do much more than go by my memory. So, for now I'll just say that, in my mind it sounds like:
Ma, YSis, YBro, YSis
for the first verse.

If you could point me to a link where I could just look at the chords I could name them all for you real fast. That would help a lot. I just answered another request like this on another song and I spent too much time enjoying the explanation...so now I'm late for bed and tired. I'd be glad to translate these songs for you though, if you could find me a link. Tabs or an audio file...or youtube video could work...
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admin
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Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 150
Location: Southern Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:56 am    Post subject: Correction on the chords... Reply with quote

Okay, I listened to them live on youtube and here's what I'm picking up for the chords in rSoG lingo:
OSis, YSis, Ma

That's the intro section...if my guitar is in tune, I'd say OSis is found on the 9th fret of the top string. (of course that's a C# major and you can play any C#major anywhere on the fretboard and be fine) Sorry, I just don't want to attract any wiseguys who want to point that out as if I don't realize it myself.

So, you keep those chords up for the first verse...then when the "chorus" line comes in you play:
YBro, YSis, OSis
and you look at yourself in the mirror while you're playing it, a bandana around your head and you sing "Whoa...whoa, oh, sweet child..." Cool

Keep all that up for a while until you get to the change where he is working his way toward the solo, that part would be:
Pa, YSis, OBro, YBro

Then, when it gets real heavy and the solo is really going you have:
Pa, Ma, YBro, YSis, OSis, Ma, Pa

But that part isn't played so much as full chords, just the roots, like a giant riff. You could play them as full chords and it would sound alright...but I don't hear them playing it as full chords.

Oh, and that part near the end where Axle does that "oh, no, no, no, no, no, no" thing along with the guitar is actually a perfect spelling out of the blues scale as it fits in with these family members (in this context anyway):
---11-----------------------------------------------------
--------14--11----------------------------------------------
------------------14--13--11----------------------------------
---------------------------------13-----------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------

While were at it, I should say that you can actually find a lot of the guitar riffs from the solo right in this precious little column here:
---11-----------------------------------------------------
--------14--11----------------------------------------------
------------------14--13--11----------------------------------
---------------------------------13--11---------------------
------------------------------------------13-12-11------------
----------------------------------------------------- 14--11---

As I have pointed out before, careers have been made with this set of notes.

Let me know if this stuff is doing anything for you. I spent almost a half hour writing this stuff up.
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pigseye
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Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:46 am    Post subject: Wow! Reply with quote

That really helps a lot and almost instantly gives me a better idea of the spacing and shape relationships for all the chords.

This would be a great beginners lesson.

I can really hear the Osis, Ysis, Ma and the Ybro, Ysis, Osis (with Bandana!) It's fun to play along with the record just strumming and hearing it sound good.

But I get totally lost with Pa, YSis, OBro, YBro. So much that I don't even try to understand the next sequence, Pa, Ma, YBro, YSis, OSis, Ma, Pa.

Where and when is Pa played? I'm trying to play it at the 11th fret and it doesn't sound right.

I really have a long way to go but this helps a lot!

Thanks so much!
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:57 pm    Post subject: Tuning my guitar Reply with quote

Well, I checked the tuning of my guitar and it seems right...but when I play along with the song it seems to be in the key of C#, which would put Papa on the 11th fret. That's unfortunate as if we could move the key up one fret that would put Papa on the 12th fret...which, as everyone should know, puts Papa where every guitarist would put him.

Anyway, if putting him on the 11th fret doesn't sound right, then move the whole family up or down one fret until they all seem to fit the version of the song you're listening to. That's the beauty of learning this rSoG way of seeing the family of chords...they are moveable, with ease. I used to do a lot of live music with a guy who used a capo and would change the key of a given song as many times as we would play it...and it didn't bother me at all because I didn't look at chords the way most people do.

Anyway, I want to give you a reference point to answer your question about when Pa comes into the song. So, load this up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-AYAv0IoWI

And at 2:53 is the arrival of Pa into the progression. When I play it, it sounds like it's the 11th fret. I made sure my guitar is in tune and all that...but the band may have dropped their guitars down 1 fret, all the strings, of course (you may have heard of or even used "drop D tuning"...well, it's the same thing, only, if I'm right, they dropped ALL the strings down 1 fret). This makes all the strings a tad bit more loose sounding (which many people like) and makes bending and playing a little easier. I wouldn't be surprised at all if that's what they did here. As I mentioned earlier, putting Papa on the 12th fret is WAY more advantageous than having him on the 11th fret...and dropping the tuning 1 fret would do that.

3:26 is the start of that Pa, Ma, Ybro, YSis, OSis, Ma thing. Like I said, don't play them as chords...I probably would have made it easier for you if I had just shown you this tab, which is the same thing (sorry, this time I'm going to number these as if Pa is on the 12th fret...I hope it doesn't confuse you):
---------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------12--------------------------
--------------------12-----15-------------------------------------
---12-----15-------------------------------15-----12--------------

__Pa____Ma___YBro__YSis___OSis__Ma____Pa
And I've written the family names of each right under to help.

And the spacing on these chords is much bigger than the tabs imply. I just wanted to fit it all on one line to avoid wrapping around to a new set of tabs. Also, along with that same idea, the pulse of each of these chords is more than just one. The way it looks here is as if you only hit these notes once, but it's really a couple. You have to listen to the music in the video and try to follow it.

Now that I have given you the times in the video to pinpoint exactly when the chords come in, I bet you will totally get it...also, very important to try to clear up that problem with the tuning being off by one fret. Like I said, I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty confident that is what's up. Lots of bands do that sort of thing. In fact, if you ever listen to the DefTones, you'll find that they detune (at least on most of the songs I've heard by them) ALL their strings a full step (2 frets) lower than the standard and from there, they do the "drop D" thing...which would more appropriately be called "drop C". It makes their stuff sound very loose and flappy. It also makes the guitars sound really deep...a very unique sound. Black Sabbath used to detune...Pantera...even Dolly Parton, believe it or not. I detune my acoutics sometimes...and used to do it ALL the time because it made them play more like an electric. I could do all the same bending without crying out in pain.

So, let me know again how this is working for you and maybe, if it does, we can then get to that other song you asked about.
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pigseye
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Joined: 18 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right, the song is played with every string tuned down half a step.

I need to go back and study the chords some more because frankly, I'm kind of lost and a little discouraged.

Let me plink away at this for a week or so and get back to you.

Please note that my lack of ability is no reflection on your system. Everything is kind of hard of for me from a musical perspective. I'm just not one of those guys who can hear and play things easily.

Thank You
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:39 am    Post subject: I can still help... Reply with quote

Yeah, go ahead and work with it for a while, but please don't give up. If you can understand the way the system relates to this one song, you'll have the light turn on in a big way. I can still help a lot too...I don't think you realize how close you are to the treasure. Just tell me what key your guitar sounds good with the song in and I can explain how the chords relate to my OSis, YSis, Ma thing.

From an earlier post it sounded like you were getting the sound to work. Right? If so, what fret were you putting like, the first chord on? From what I gathered and you verified, if you detune all the strings 1 fret, then you'd be playing OSis (a major chord) on the 10th fret of the top string, then the next chord would be another major (YSis) on the 8th fret, and then Ma (another major) would be on the 3rd fret. In other words:
---10----------------------------8--------------------------------3------------
---10----------------------------8--------------------------------3------------
---11----------------------------9--------------------------------6------------
---12----------------------------10-------------------------------5------------
---12----------------------------10-------------------------------5------------
---10--(this is OSis)------------8--(YSis)-----------------------3--(Ma)-----

Now, look at the distances each of these family members are from one another. That is what you are to focus on. Learn the distance each of these family members are from one another and then it won't matter what key the song is in. Once you identify one family member, you know where all the others are. Of course, figuring out "who" one chord is takes strategy, and you will gradually gain some of that. For example, when I went to figure this song out, after you posted your request, I heard the first chord and knew it had that happy sound, so it had to be a major. So, I started playing a major chord, rooted on the top string, and I just kept moving it around until I found where it sounded strong. You might even have to keep rewinding the song, as I did in a number of spots until I knew I had it. So, anyway, I knew that first chord was a major and figured out where it lived on the fretboard. Then, when I found the second major chord and saw that it was only two frets away from the first one, I knew right then I had the two sisters...because they are the only two major chords in the family that sit that close to eachother. So, it was no surprise to located the next "happy" sounding major chord on the 3rd fret, because I knew any 3rd major chord would have to be Ma...and I know exactly how far away she is, because I've memorized the family.

I know that's a lot to throw at you, but sometimes it really helps my students when I talk them through the process of figuring out chords. There are certain clues that start to give away the identity of chords. Sometimes it's a dead give away right away, but other times you may have to hunt around and do more testing. It's certainly easier to teach that part in person. I have plans for trying to develop some videos that show me walking myself through such a challenge, to try to give away some of the thoughts that go through my mind when I'm picking for clues...some of the tests I do to help my ear verify chords.

I don't want you to get frustrated with this part. It's really worth fighting for. It's like a gold mine when you get it. If you can grasp the slippery simplicity of this concept you'll be able to figure out ANY song...and be able to just walk into a musical situation and join right in.

So, you hang in there and keep asking the hard questions until we make a breakthrough. Okay? I'm right here...and there's no telling how many other readers will benefit if you ask.
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